Sorry but this police response is total BS!!! That cop held up the pepperspray canister like he was about to perform a stage show and point-blank sprayed them in the face!!!! Why does a college campus need a militarized police force? This is the most ridiculous thing I have EVER seen and EVERYONE responsible needs to be FIRED and CHARGED with assault!!!

“Concern for their own safety”? I’m sorry, but the offending officer looks about as concerned as a fox in a henhouse. The cavalier manner in which he happily raises the canister before spraying it into the faces of the unarmed students conveys not even the slightest hint of concern. He was enjoying it. He should be fired and charged with assault, and Spicuzza needs to resign immediately. This is a complete abuse of power.

Welcome to the real world hippy. Blame your parents for protecting you from the truths in life. The world isn’t filled with snuggles and rainbows after all. Keep up the good work pepper spray!

Lt. John Pike doesn’t deserve a good night’s sleep for the rest of his life. This is textbook police brutality. Several of these students were hospitalized and one was throwing up blood 45 minutes after the fact. Please write and call to demand his and Chancellor Katehi’s resignation. This is an inexcusable use of force on seated students who posed no threat to any officers.

Wow we’re really opposite, I thought the police should have been wearing sombrero’s and Hawian shirts and then spraying the hippy kids. They don’t need that body armor for spoiled hippy kids, have some fun with it.

Marc, youre a troll. Agree with the protesters or not, but using pepper spray just because some kids wont get off a walkway on the quad is ridiculous. As if the police couldnt walk around them… that makes me laugh. One too many doughnuts blocking up those arteries? Please.

Strong words from a guy that doesn’t know how to use correct punctuation. You probably didn’t even watch any of the available videos that were uploaded by bystanders and probably would prefer if the First Amendment were repealed. The many videos in evidence from this incident are Exhibits A-Z in the case against Lt John Pike, Police Chief Annette M. Spicuzza, and Chancellor Linda Katehi. Only a moron would pretend otherwise. Even Chancellor Katehi admits in her open statement regarding today’s events that the students were protesting peacefully. Seated students, locked in arms, posed no threat to these officers. I agree with “Taxpayer” that Lt. John Pike appeared cavalier while assaulting these students and should be removed from his post, as well as Police Chief Spicuzza who authorized the action. This was an overt abuse of authority and those responsible need to be held accountable.

http://bicyclebarricade.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/open-letter-to-chancellor-linda-p-b-katehi/

Marc: are you one of the UC Davis cops? Out yourself or get off this rant list before someone pepper sprays your ass!

Lol. Cowards hide behind screens to deliver bold statements. Its hard to take you seriously.

Yep and my trigger finger is worn out, hard to type. I told my commander that we should spay deordoant instead. He insisted on pepper spray so sorry to the rest of UC Davis students, I tried.

You protestors are a joke. What are you protesting? The right to make a profit? The middle class is being squeezed out by Obama and not Corporations. Stop listening to your Liberal Professors and wake up. You have more opportunity in this country then anywhere else in the world. The 99% of us that do not agree with you have no idea what you want? Organize peacefully and follow the law like the Tea Partiers did.

Whats the correct typing of a baby crying? “whaaay” or “wyaaah”? Stacey, nothing’s gonna happen to the Police Officers, live with it and move on. Your punctuation skills should land you a decent job.

Is this what the face of “yes we can” and “the audacity of hope” looks like Mr President?

Have you seen the little piggies
Crawling in the dirt
And for all the little piggies
Life is getting worse
Always having dirt to play around in.

Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt
Always have clean shirts to play around in.

In their sties with all their backing
They don’t care what goes on around
In their eyes there’s something lacking
What they need’s a damn good whacking.

Everywhere there’s lots of piggies
Living piggy lives
You can see them out for dinner
With their piggy wives
Clutching forks and knives to eat their bacon.

Petition for resignation of UC Davis Chancellor Katehi

http://www.change.org/petitions/uc-davis-chancellor-linda-pb-katehi-resign

Maybe the authorities are getting a little tired of these “occupy” protests and are raising the level of their response. Protestors should remember that in the future. That said, I would agree that the use of the pepper spray here was too much.

Marc Sac, the only crying here is done by the students who were sprayed in the face by pepper spray out of a paintball gun. This was caught on video and there have already been cases that prove this to be obsessive force. The officers should definitely be removed. Officers serve to protect the public (or at least so they say – they are paid by the mayor or other official and in general only follow those orders no matter what it means to the public).

Worked as intended? Did you watch the video? This only made the cause of the students even stronger. They forced the police out!

Protestors should remember that in the future? If anything this is more cause TO PROTEST

Police say they were worried for their safety??? Really now? Let’s look at the facts of this video: (1) After pepper spraying, police are shown dragging a student down the sidewalk — all police had an exit and could have easily used it with no harm to themselves (2) One of the cops in the video actually smiles about the situation after the pepper spray had been issued — he looks REAL concerned. (3) The “scared” police are dressed in riot gear compared to a crowd of people with no protection. (4) The officer who shot the pepper spray raised his paint ball gun in the air to the crowd in an obvious show of ‘this is what happens when you don’t listen to authorities’ (5) The crowd surrounded the police minutes after the pepper spraying concerned. That’s when the police were actually notably scared. And they should be! This was an abusive act, their faces are now known, their names are now known, and the people will not forget!

The fact is that the “Occupiers” are criminals and nothing more. The cops could have used much greater force if they had wanted and it would have been justified under the law. If you don’t want to get pepper sprayed, then don’t hang out with losers!

The video above was edited and doesn’t show anything regarding how easily the “scared” police could have easily exited or how the officer started straying and how the student assembly responded: Here’s a real video: Journalism needs full disclosure. Sad the full video isn’t posted here. http://boingboing.net/2011/11/18/police-pepper-spraying-arrest.html

This time it’s not just kids protesting, there are Vets, older working people, people with jobs that are doing this for their grand kids.
This time the powers that be may push too far.
It doesn’t look to me like the protestors are going away and every day they put up with this police power they are gaining more support.

Look up the Law Chris instead of listening to what you want to hear. The courts have already deemed such use of spray paint an excessive use of force in violation of the 4th Amendment. The only crooks here are the politicians who continuously waste taxpayer money for their own benefit and not the benefit of the taxpayers and the cops who have used excessive force on peaceful people. Try fighting for something you believe in and tell me if you feel it would be alright for someone to pepper spray you for believing it.

Apologies: Pepper spray, not spray paint

This is so crazy occupppiers have been camped out in the park down town for some time, why pick on the kids at the college, the quad is a good place to have a camp out, spraying these peacefully sitting kids was child abuse big time, they were not blocking traffic, they were not putting anyone in danger, abuse of police should really be protested, I was furious when I saw them pick on a few kids to spray, the kids were not doing anything but sitting there i was afriaid a couple of the kids might really get sick from such excessive spray, while other kids did not get sprayed, boy we have discrimination here, if ya spray one ya should spray them all, best not to spray any of them at all.

[...] you would like to learn more about this heroic act, you can view the article here. Share this:StumbleUponTwitterFacebookEmailPrintLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. [...]

What are you talking about Chris? Justified by law? Do you even read a contract when you sign it? What law are you versed in?
And when is the last time you could tell “fact” from fiction?

Too bad you weren’t born in North Korea you would have risen to the top very easily. A real company man, as they say, still trying to get daddy’s approval.

[...] ran across this gem defending this– UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of [...]

The protesters chose to defy a lawful order. That was the result of their choice. If you chose to break the law, you should be prepared to deal with the result of your action. We don’t get to pick and choose which laws should be enforced. If someone killed or raped someone should they not be arrested? Just because you are sitting peacefully, does not mean you are not breaking the law. Just because the person being arrested thinks the law is trivial, doesn’t mean they don’t have to abide by it.

[...] chief of the UC Davis police department told the local CBS news that officers began spraying, in the station’s paraphrase, “out of concern for their own safety,” a claim that [...]

[...] doing nothing more than sitting down on a college sidewalk at a college that they paid to attend the response from a UC Davis police spokesperson was that the police feared for their [...]

The cops have been out of control for a long time and the video just proves it. Peaceful demonstration and then pepper spray. That would in my opinion make it a not so peaceful demonstartion. I would say the cops were pretty lucky that they did not have a riot for there acts. I notice that you always have a bad apple and boy that cop who did the spraying looked like he should become a lion tamer because he sure should not be around human beings. That cop rotted the whole barrell. Thsi guy should be charged for inciting a riot. He is a waste of human flesh.

[...] look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” Spicuzza told CBS Sacramento. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the [...]

[...] look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” Spicuzza told CBS Sacramento. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the [...]

You probably needed the deodarant because you sure do smell. Violence incites violence so now the brass try to sugar coat the stupidity. Will not work heads will roll. You cops have way to big heads.

Sure drop out of college and become a red neck missing link person like 1%. What kind of idiot would make excuses for coward cops who use pepper spray on non violent students staging a non disruptive sit in?! You should be thankful for the students standing up for the 99% so go back to feeding your pit bull or cleaning up around your trailor.

[...] a report by the CBS Sacramento station Friday night, Spicuzza said the officers’ own safety was also a concern. “If you look [...]

1% your post is the most outrageously violent post I have ever read you need to get some anger counciling, to actually wish cops had used a bullet to the head of kids demonstrating which is their right, you on the other hand should be in a mentally disturbed facility. It is scary to think someone like you is running around lose.

So doodle…You related to 1% poster above! Same lame attempt to excuse cops using pepper spray on non violent peaceful students. Oh thats right I forgot …they were afraid for their safety! Hers a thought. If the protest doesn’t present a public safety and is non disruptive just ignor it. Davis cops sould find better things to do with their time.

Protesters got their civil rights, protesters got that horrible Vietnam war and the unfair unjust draft(that killed many young students) stopped. Thank God we have the right to protest, no one killed or raped anyone at UC Davis what a lame moronic comparison, sometimes laws need to be changed

Your thinking is a little doodled to say the least. There choice was to sit there not be pepper sprayed by these hooligan cops. When you are sitting peacefully which law are you breaking ? I need exact quotes from the law books since you know so much. Quote chapter and verse and which law book you got your info from.

You are one sick excuse for a non human being. You your be commited immediatetly to the mental hospital. You are everything bad about a human being which probably makes you inhuman. What a piece of work.

Mark maybe we should all take a look at Davis PD’s general orders regarding the use of pepper spray. I haven’t seen the order but I doubt that it would authorize the use of pepper spray on non violent citizens who aren’t presenting a threat to the officers or others.

What an ugly scene. The Occupy people are whiny losers with nothing going for them in life, and cops are pigs. It’s a lose-lose article.

I agree with 1%. We, the taxpayers, are TIRED of OWS. Look at all the tax money being spent on police overtime. And what for? So some over-privileged kids can get their mugs on the news and cry how bad they are being mistreated by society, and how capitalism isn’t favoring them? And have you questioned that some of these protesters may have mental disturbances?

OWS is RAPING the taxpayers. Taxpayers need to take notice. I know some of you have to agree that this movement needs to be shut down. Free speech has its limits, but the taxpayers shouldn’t be burdened with flipping the bill to pay for the continuing RAPING that OWS is having on our communities. Destroying our parks, and now our college campuses. And you OWS protesters have no one but to blame but yourselves. Don’t go on and blaming the police or corporate America for your problems. You need to look in the mirror and look at yourself first before you blame anyone else for your selfish problems.

I say there should be a movement to OCCUPY OCCUPY WALL STREET, in which taxpayers go in and beat the hell out of these protesters in anger for wasting our community’s valuable resources and money. And I have to agree, these protesters need to be put into check.

I will make sure that I never hang around you as you are for sure a big loser tough guy!!

Actually Chris needs Mommas approval.

Sounds like a true GOP politician alot of talk but no action. The Tea party is more wothless than the dog doo on my shoe. Radical stupid idiots.

Now are you saying the police officers are God. Because the excessive force is obvious and luckily was caught on camera. The police made it into a riot sitution with there pepper spray.

He was posing for the camera. He was hoping to get abig Hollywood contract. He wants his own movie as he is now a star do you not get it. I do.

The protesters whould have left. They were given a chance. They choose wrong. You may not like, but so what? I would have used two cans!!

Yeah, your right AK. No point in this story just students protesting college fees escalating out of reach for middle class families as they have been for several years. It’s a real comfort to know there are still people in tune with the world around them and the issues of the day!

[...] a report by the CBS Sacramento station Friday night, Spicuzza said the officers’ own safety was also a concern. “If you look [...]

They did use more than one can…one of the videos I saw showed that…

What was accomplished by using the spray? they still had to pry the arms apart…the situation was not ever a threat to the police. The tents were already gone, the police could have made the same retreat they made after arresting 10 of the 50 or so people who were locking arms. There was no need for force.

[...] local CBS affiliate reports:  Police Defend Use Of Force On ‘Occupy UC Davis’ “If you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that [...]

You couldn’t be more wrong Chris. The students have a legal and constitutional right to peaceful assembly and protest and as far as protests go this one could not have been more peacful, non intrusive and non threatening. Also it’s highly unlikely that Davis PD general orders would authorize the use of pepper spray on non violent citizens who aren’t posing a threat to the officers or to others. The students are protesting out of control and escalating tuition fees that affects everyone including you. If fees aren;t brought under control we all loose.

Officers don’t need to defend thier actions. The losers do. Get out and get a life. Do you even remember why you are protesting? Most people think you are idiots.

I fully support the actions of the police. Sick of this BS from these malcontents who think they can do whatever they want. I’m part of the 99% and I don’t need some bums or anarchists or Marxists claiming to speak for me. HAD ENUFF? Let the backlash begin!

Amen AK!

What was accomplished by using the spray???

It sure brought a smile to a lot of us 99%ers Yes indeed. And Scott, I’m in the 99% and these stinking hippies, anarchists, and Marxists don’t represent me or anyone else. They are lucky the police were so gentle with them.

Get a life and a job. You are a bum and are the reason you are broke. I am a Conservative and guess what… I made more money this year then ever before in my life. My job is not related to anything a bad economy drives. The work force keeps getting dumber and lazier and is making it easier for me to succeed. Keep whining and proesting and I will keep “Winning”. Thanks for making it easier for my children too. Oh yea, that is “Bi Whinning”.

[...] a report by the CBS Sacramento station Friday night, Spicuzza said the officers’ own safety was also a concern. «If you look at the [...]

like they say…..

“don’t hate the players, hate the game!!!”

OWS is toast!! the taxpayers have had ENOUGH of their whiny, crybaby, socialist tactics and we REAL AMERICANS DEMAND AN END TO THEIR LIBERAL CHARADES. fine them all!! make them pay for their own mistakes, and for the overtime and any other restitution costs.

it’s time to OCCUPY OWS!! sue the hell out of this organization on behalf of the taxpayers, since this corrupt organization has RAPED the taxpayers and violated the principles of law and order.

Funny thing is Cindy, most people think you’re an idiot for being a conformist robot too, so we’ll call it even. Your the type like these other lovers of swine that would bust out with your little dainty lady jogger mace spray because you feel threatened by someone who disagrees with you. Probably. Sow.

Those English majors are wirey. Chief Spicuzza you need to be bounced out of office. This was done to intimidate and nothing more and wasn’t warranted no matter how you try to spin it. And if your armed force can’t physically remove demonstrators without pepper spray then someone needs to review the physical requirements for the force.

Why are some of you so angry at these people? What are they doing to you? Do you go to UC Davis? Were they on your lawn? The amount of harm you want to cause other human beings for no other reason than they are voicing their opinion in a peaceful manner is appalling.

So next time your kid doesn’t listen to his/her teacher in class can they go ahead and pepper spray them? Maybe smack them around? You’re all for that right?

You think you are Americans? What a joke the lot of you are. I hope the day comes where you have a run in with a Pig and try to plead your case and he tazes you for no reason.

Don’t bother with the stupid “I don’t do anything to warrant that happening to me bull.” Because if you keep letting this continue they won’t need a reason to do it. You simply disagreeing will be enough. This has nothing to do with either side of the protest. This has to do with being a human being.

Swine-troll. Mr. Oink of the internet.

Hear that? That’s the sound made by Fascist Swine Elitists wanting THEIR park back. LOL! Aww, how they must they long to go back to the trough unopposed to rut around in the muck for bucks…

The only thing the Republicans apparently got correct is that we should get rid of the excessive number of cops we have in this country. If they act like that send em packing

It’s cute that you have no idea what you are talking about. You hungry? Tired? Want your binky?

Look at those ruffians sitting! I mean, I never sit. I stand all day. So I now cops would never do this to me.

If they decide to participate in acts of civil disobedience, they must be prepared for the consequences.

Whether you agree with the Occupiers or not, I think it’s very important to ask yourself, “Do I support police brutality in response to civil disobedience?”. If your answer is, no, you join the ranks of those who wrote our constitution and identify with the core beliefs of American democracy. If you answer “yes” step right over to the group of Americans intent on sacrificing civilian rights and the First Amendment in favor of a militarized police state. No matter what the issue, Tea Party or Green party or the politically Independent group of Occupiers, this type of police response is unwarranted and disturbing.

Notice that cops never feared for their lives when the Tea Party rallied while armed to the teeth with automatic weapons, stating that they were not afraid to use them.

@1%: HEY SCHWEINHUND, don’t look now, but, THE COPS JUST DID THAT TO YOUR WIFE AND CHILDREN ON THE FRONT LAWN OF YOUR HOME, er um, “THE BANKS HOME THAT YOU -OCCUPY-.” SO, YOU DON’T THINK IT COULD EVER HAPPEN BECAUSE OF WHO AND WHAT YOU ARE? THINK AGAIN DIPWAD!

[...] a report by the CBS Sacramento station Friday night, Spicuzza said the officers’ own safety was also a concern. “If you look [...]

realist, you fool,

It is because of people who do not accept the status quo that you enjoy certain rights, privileges and freedoms. Many of them were and still are college students.

Away, away to your cave!

@Appalled: Agreed. The ‘some’ that you speak of, well, it’s because most of them haven’t got a frickin’ clue and they can’t be bothered to think for themselves. That is the reason behind it. They actually believe and foolishly expect to be able to take their freedom for granted, until the end of time. The writing isn’t on the wall for them, but it soon will be.

[...] Meanwhile, the police offers who initially doused the protesters with pepper spray has been identified as UC Davis Police Lt. John Pike. UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza defended the use of pepper spray, saying officers were concerned for their own safety. [...]

[...] "Police Defend Use Of Force On 'Occupy UC Davis'" [...]

Are the police so wimpy these days that they can’t just man handle these people and pick up and carry them away? Police from long ago didn’t have tasers or pepper spray and never had these issues. IMHO this is just abuse of power on the part of the UCD Police. I’m suprised they didn’t shoot anyone!

WWJD? He’d OWS!!!

Of course the police could have just waited until each student needed to leave for the toilet and then just not allow them to return. But because they are mindless thugs they would rather use violence and I see some comments actually approving of this brutality. I can only assume they are police too.

[...] you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” said Chief Spicuzza. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the [...]

[...] you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” said Chief Spicuzza. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the [...]

You would think that no one likes to see 19-20 year old kids pepper sprayed like that. It is one thing to disagree with people its another thing to approve their beating, especially when the opponent consists of kids.

the students were told to leave. If they are not smart enough to follow directions they should not be in college. If a teacher assigned a project to pass a class and the student did not complete that project, the student would not pass that class. Well this is a lesson in life. Listen to the people in authority. If you work for a company and they tell you to do a job then do it. If you refuse they will fire you.

Hitler would be proud of you

How is it “peaceful” when students disobey a lawful order to disperse? If police don’t have the right to enforce their lawful orders, then why do we have them?

UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of concern for their own safety after they were surrounded by students. What? So let me get this straight……instead of the police leaving once the tents were taken down, Lt. Pike and Chief Police Spicuzza thought is safer for the police officers to pepper spray peacefully seated protesters, manhandle protesters to disengage them and arrest ten of them, and then cowardly band together, with rifles raised against the students, and back their way out of the park. Someone needs to take a class in critical thinking skills….and it is not the protesters!

[...] a report by the CBS Sacramento station Friday night, Spicuzza said the officers’ own safety was also a concern. “If you look [...]

[...] a report by the CBS Sacramento station Friday night, Spicuzza said the officers’ own safety was also a concern. “If you look [...]

The police weren’t threatened. by the students sitting down. So use of the pepper spray was not needed. The lt should be fired and brought up on charges. Afterward, the kids remained and shouted Shame on You to the cops and You can go.. And the cops left. The students remained

Non-violent civil disobedience is generally considered “peaceful” in that it involves no violence.

The entire point is that they are breaking a law in a peaceful manner as a form of protest. This was an important strategy of the civil rights movement, one championed by Martin Luther King, Jr. who was arrested about 30 times while performing non-violent civil disobedience.

Try reading the First Amendment – the highest law of them all – the right to assembly peacefully.

[...] [...]

constitutional rights supersede any other “laws.”

cops to do not have the “authority” to infringe upon our constitutional rights. there are no enforceable laws above the bill of rights. this is the “life lesson.”

OK. So after reading this news article, I’m left with the impression that Chief Spicuzza’s logic runs something like this…

(1) My officers were surrounded by 200 unarmed students in jeans, t-shirts, and running shoes shouting “shame on you” and “let them go.”

(2) My trained officers dressed in full riot gear and armed with radios, guns, batons, and chemical weapons felt threatened by words.

(3) So the officer’s CO on the scene steps forward and pepper-sprays unarmed non-violent students sitting on the ground because he thought that action would somehow de-escalate the tension and lessen the “dire threat” about to “engulf” the “surrounded” officers/Red-Coats.

Does that accurately sum up the Chief’s logic and reading of the situation?

Good grief. We in US have got to be at a major turning point. Peaceful dissent cannot be met with a militarized response. Our children are NOT our enemies. Good God!

If campus police can deal with being “surrounded by students” then… do I really need to finish this statement?

==============

“…UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of concern for their own safety after they were surrounded by students.”

“If you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” said Chief Spicuzza. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the decision that was made.”

@BM

The 1st Amendment as interpreted by the Supreme Court does NOT provide for the right to assemble unconditionally and without any limits. For example, higher courts have repeatedly upheld laws requiring permitting for large assemblies and similar laws, usually in the name of public safety.

Not on private property …….

[...] a report by the CBS Sacramento station Friday night, Spicuzza said the officers’ own safety was also a concern. “If you look [...]

kids are under 18, welcome to the real world of self accountability

“If you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” said Chief Spicuzza. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the decision that was made.”

What kind of justification is that? It happened to be the wrong decision.

UC Davis is a state school. So NOT private property.

The whole point to non-violent social disobedience is to get your attention, if making the system work harder which cost money, gets your attention then the protest is successful , providing of course your trying to understand the reasoning.

Sitting quietly=peaceful

Pepper spraying those people=not peaceful

Glad I could clear that up.

We should be able to upvote comments, because this would get my vote.

19-20 year olds are NOT kids!! They are full grown adults!! And for the record, they were pepper sprayed not BEATEN! I have looked at the Constitution and while I see a right to protest, I’ll be damned if I can find a constitutional right to occupy SH!T!!

But you do have the right to be a complete idiot, and my don’t you take full advantage of that

“I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protesters. The people of Egypt have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere.” —Barack Obama

Yet this happens in his own Country? Very disturbing.

The article ends by saying that the protesters vowed to continue the occupation, but had mostly cleared out later that evening… However, in the video, you can clearly hear the GA asking for everyone to reconvene on Monday at noon.

Also, it should be pointed out that the officer didn’t pull out the pepper spray in a moment when he was about to get attacked… he struts around and holds the can in the air first… this is the same behavior we see in serial killers. He is taunting the crowd and showing off. Even before he pulls the trigger, he has already acted in a way that is threatening, unprofessional, and arrogant.

This officer should be terminated immediately. And whoever ordered these officers to show up in riot gear with paintball guns should be run out of the country.

Even if the students didn’t obey orders to clear out, this was not necessary. There are a million different ways that the situation could have been handled.

1) suspending students who were insubordinate.
2) turning the sprinklers on
3) throw a party with free food somewhere nearby
4) having regular cops just walk around until people just dispersed.
5) sending in street preachers to talk to the students about Jesus Christ
6) water balloons

…and those are just off the top of my head.

[...] Spicuzza, the chief of the UC Davis police department, told the local CBS news that officers began spraying, in the station’s paraphrase, “out of concern for their own safety,” a claim that video and [...]

You are an IDIOT. You have obviously never experienced any type of budget cut in your life. They are standing up for what they believe in, which should be instilled in all individuals.

Once again, you are an IDIOT. You have no idea what students go through to achieve their dreams.

Maybe they are protesting about tuition fees being raised, not every year, but EVERY semester. College students can barely afford to live anymore. Davis students have two students to a room for the most part. You are probably the definition of the kid that had the rich parents and had everything paid for! All students know what they want and that is an ‘affordable education.’

For the record, it’s THAN not THEN. and your last question doesn’t make sense.

[...] key photo is here which is a 1000 words that utterly undercuts police claims that the pepper spraying was an act of necessary self-defense on the part of the [...]

We aren’t kids.

So sitting on a sidewalk automatically means you will get pepper sprayed? I can’t even think intelligently right now because you probably wouldn’t understand. Sitting on a sidewalk and killing/raping someone are two different things. People like you make my blood boil due to your lack of intelligence.

[...] you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” said Chief Spicuzza. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the [...]

Spicuzza —-> Liar Liar pants on fire.
Edwards v. South Carolina, 372 U.S. 229 (1963), in an 8-to-1 decision, the high court overturned the breach of peace convictions of 180 black students who had peacefully marched to the state capitol to protest discrimination. The police stopped the demonstration and arrested the students because they were afraid that the 200-300 who gathered to watch the demonstration might cause a riot. The court held the state law unconstitutionally over-broad because it penalized the exercise of free speech, peaceable assembly, and the right of petition for a redress of grievances. A disorderly crowd, or the fear of one, cannot be used to stop a peaceful demonstration or cancel the right of peaceable assembly.

How about this?
The legal bills will be coming in.
You need to be re-educated.
Hague v. C.I.O., 307 U.S. 496 (1939), the high court ruled that peaceful demonstrators may not be prosecuted for “disorderly conduct.” This case also secured streets and sidewalks as public forums.

http://pastebin.com/P5xsZkah

See any conflict with your free speech rights regarding this incident?

United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1876), the Supreme Court said that the “right of the people peaceably to assemble for the purpose of petitioning Congress for a redress of grievances, or for anything else connected with the powers and duties of the national government, is an attribute of national citizenship, and as such, under the protection of, and guaranteed by, the United States.” The high court applied the liberty only to any federal government’s encroachment.

De Jonge v. Oregon, 299 U.S 353 (1937), the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously ruled that the right to peaceably assemble “for lawful discussion, however unpopular the sponsorship, cannot be made a crime.” The decision applied the First Amendment right of peaceful assembly to the states through the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

if you watch during the center time of the video while they were on the sidewalk, the cop walking around with his hand on his ear was taking on a cell phone.
When he got off the phone is when the spray came out.
Someone authorized the use of chemical agents to force disbursement.
The question is, who was he talking to?

[...] – of up to 16%.”UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of concern for their own safety after they were surrounded by students.“If you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that [...]

What a prick you are.. You must be Ball Sac’s militant loco brother.

Her punctuation is bad.. but you have outdone her having taken on the d*ckhead role, How low can you go?

The Chief is lying. Did she watch the video. That is not in the slightest what happened. Does she have a brain in her head. She needs to go and so do half the cops that work for her.

If the officers had shown up without riot gear on, and some student got squirrely and stupid; and an offeicer got hurt–would you be inclined to also call the oficer arrogant and unprofessional?

Just wondering, are you an anarchist with an agenda, following this occupy movement around–or are you really that clueless how the police really set standards to protect their officers?

No one likes the idea that officers are overstepping civil rights; but we all know that given the elements of a large group of young people, dissatisfaction, and a group mentality can lead to heightened emotional states and violence.

Here is another thought, when the little kids were told to go home, no camping allowed; and they refused–that was an act of trespass. They are lucky they didn’t get arrested for a trespass misdemeanor. protesting is one thing. Camping and being an unwelcome nightmare and scourge to the eyesight and health and safety of the public is just unacceptable.

There is also a difference between lethal, less than lethal and non lethal weapons used to quash protest behavior that is not legally disbanding after hours.

There is no constitutiuonal protection from getteing pepper sprayed after being ordered to move off off public property by a police officer. It is a non lethal weapon.

Im a vet and I approve police protecting public property for all people, not just a select few who think they can monopolize funds, forces and the boo hoo to mommy for not expecting a slap on the wrist after refusing to vacate premises!

More like welcome to fascism

There is your problem then, it was not a lawful order. Just because the police order something does not make it lawful

Congrats on defending the indefensible, your entire argument, or lack thereof is laughable

Then the authorities you speak of should get into a new line of work if they can not handle the duties of their job legally

The fact is you do not have a clue what you are talking about, you are just another wannabee right wing thug

Sorry, students could of avoided it by obeying the orders to clear. Look at the offenders NOT the peace-keepers.

I am looking at the offenders, the so called police. Why do so many enable the indefensible?

No one has denied anyone the right to peaceably assemble. Peaceably assemble means that you are also responsible for obeying all laws, rules and regulations. The students did NOT do this. When asked to leave, they linked arms and refused to move. This went on for several hours before police used force. Had the protesters moved when asked, there would have been NO pepper spray, NO use of force and NO arrests. That is the beauty of this country. Everyone has the same equal access UNDER THE LAW. If you choose to IGNORE the law and law enforcement, then you RUN THE RISK of being arrested and possibly having force used against you. SHAME ON OUR NEWS MEDIA for attempting to make these rebellious toddlers out to be innocent victims. if this is the only means that supposedly intelligent students can find to protest, then we need to pull ALL funding for our universities because clearly they are not being educated appropriately in how the judicial process works. Protesters do NOT have special rights that no one else has which means that they do NOT have the right to camp out where camping is NOT allowed. The police were simply doing their job of removing students from the quad when their LEGAL TIME to be there was up. You leave, go home and come back the next day if you so choose, but you cannot camp out. Inappropriate use of force would have been officers drawing weapons and shooting persons who refused to leave. Spraying with pepper spray to get them to unlink arms and disperse is NOT excessive or inappropriate use of force. Peppers spray, rubber bullets and other things have been designed to aid law enforcement for those situations where people refuse to obey, but without causing great bodily injury. They would not have to resort to using these aids if people simply did the right thing and dispersed when asked. Just because a large number of you out there have a disrespect for rules and regulations doesn’t mean that you have a right to break the rules and not suffer the consequences. When there are rules I don’t like, laws that I think are bad, I work with my congressman, senators, city officials or whoever to GET THEM CHANGED I don’t throw a public temper tantrum which is basically what the occupy movement is. I accomplishes ZERO and creates huge problems for the rest of the population. And no way do these people represent 99% of the population. For every person who tells me they agree with the occupy movement, I have 5 telling me the infants need to grow up.

Bogus argument. Protesting, maybe. But no longer protesting when they choose to camp out. Camping out is illegal. And refusing to vacate is illegal. I believe there is also an infraction in not doing as an officer says.

And as difficult as it is for you to understand, those cops did the right thing in making sure the students were not going to mass jump those coips; and they kept control of the situation. Just look at how quickly the Oakland movement got.There is an inherent risk to harm when involved in a protest involved a group of dissatisfied people who are directly confronting a perceived representative of authority.
And we have already seen on this thread a great deal of spectacular maturity and show of respect for the government, the police and the school faculty.
Those kids are lucky more of them didn’t get arrested. I believe there is a clause in every tuition assistance and grant package I have seen that restricts payout to felonies, violent misdemeanors, and any charges involving drugs..

You can tell by the officers body language and expression on their face that they were very scared. They should have pulled out their guns and started firing at the students. Look at the officer in the background with his hands spread apart, some may interpret this as him holding the crowd back, but he was really trying to find a way out.

Social DISOBEDIENCE…….that’s the key word here. Doesn’t matter if it’s Non-violent or not. It’s breaking the law and it has it’s consequences. Just because it grabs attention doesn’t mean it’s successful. The wrong kind of attention is NOT success. It just makes the occupy movement look even more ridiculous. Bottom line, if you don’t like the tuition hikes, find another school or quit for a year or two and go to work to fund your education. It may not be what you WANT but it is more likely to be WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD. No one in this country is ENTITLED to a “free” education beyond high school. One of the fastest ways to get a company or business or school to change it’s policies and practices is to STOP DOING BUSINESS WITH THEM. They can’t exist without customers. But trying to force others into bending to YOUR point of view through “civil” disobedience not only seldom works, but violates the rights of others and THEIR point of view. One person’s rights do not supersede another person’s rights .

Pepper spray is NOT police brutality. Just because someone may not LIKE pepper spray because it burns and stings and smarts and makes you cry DOESN’T MAKE IT BRUTAL. I can’t believe all the fools here who think that you can strip law enforcement of all their tools to enforce the law and think that you are going to have crime free communities. Take a look around….as law enforcement have backed off over the years because of “public outcry” when they use force to remove people that won’t be removed any other way……crime has increased on all levels from petty theft to violent crime. No different that raising children. If you don’t discipline when they flop their big hairy toe over the line they will keep pushing the line back. Eventually you have a child that is out of control and has contempt for every form of authority from parents, school, employer and government. Now people cry that law enforcement isn’t doing enough to “protect the citizens from all the crime” and when they take a zero tolerance attitude, you all scream police brutality. CAN’T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS FOLKS.

I am truly sorry you are so clueless, I do pity you if you are really that delusional

You can excuse fascism if you wish, it does not change the fact the cops were wrong and that you are just an enabler of police brutality. Seig Heil

I do pity you, it must suck to live your pathetic life that you like seeing students attacked by thugs

At least you are consistent in your support for police brutality, and once again I must pity you for your sorry lot in life

[...] UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used the less-than-lethal agent because they feared for their own safety. One of the students who was sprayed says Lt. John Pike used military-grade pepper spray that is [...]

“Camping and being an unwelcome nightmare and scourge to the eyesight and health and safety of the public is just unacceptable.”

You are right – We should pepperspray the homeless too… I hate when they ask for change.

I am pretty clueless about how police set standards… you got me there. I don’t know why anyone would authorize the use of a chemical weapon on unarmed, seated “kids.”

So then since you are a vet, do you approve of the vet that was beaten so bad in Oakland that he had to be put in the hospital?

They are students that pay every semester to be on that campus! It was a Friday they should have been allowed there regardless. They were not camping at this point. If they were in tents, that would have been a different story. Why didn’t the cops pepper spray the entire crowd of students and just the one sitting there? Everyone in the video was yelling at the cops, not just the people sitting. What makes them any different?

My God, those demonstrators look dangerolus! They must be students. They probably think Democracy is alive and well in this country. Probably a bunch of Communists/Hippy/Free Love types.

If only we enforced banking and finance laws as strictly as “no camping’ laws–then we wouldn’t be in this mess.

It looks to me like not all the officers were comfortable with the use of pepper spray and not that they were in fear of their lives. The officer doing the spraying is having way too much fun at his job. I wonder how many of you condeming the students have had to pay the high tuition these students do while the regents, etc keep getting raises. Somehow I do not see how a higher salary is prt of the requred cost of running educational institutions. Seems more like greed to me.

Good job police. Next time use your firearms against these criminals!

These students are garbage! The police must take out the trash!

[...] Spicuzza, the chief of a UC Davis military department, told a internal CBS news that officers began spraying, in a station’s paraphrase, “out of regard for their possess safety,” a explain that video [...]

He was hit because he didn’t obey orders and stop, and do what the officer told him to do. I’m goign to assume that he is a vet with very little military experience, or time. Do I approve of anyone, vet or not getting hurt? Stupid question. I see the validity of the use of force when necessary. I do not see the purpose of senseless force without purpose. I do believe in cautionary use of force as a tool for self preservation, as well. I do not believe in questioning the use of force of soldiers or cops if I did not see it from start to end and cannot have any idea what really happened.
Does that answer your question?

That’s not trespassing. It’s a public school AND they have the freedom to protest.

The riot gear wasn’t the problem. It was the pepperspray. As a US Army veteran, this is NOT the correct way to go. Pepperspray is for quelling RIOTS not PROTESTS! If the kids were throwing rocks, or spitting, or throwing punches, THATS When you use pepperspray. Not just because youre a jerk with pepperspray who wants to bully college students.

These kids are supported by the UC Davis Faculty. Even the City of Davis Police Department has stated they took the wrong action.

Stop looking for exuses for bullies to be bullies.

Will, would you let me search your house without a warrant?
Would you let a police officer search the trunk of your car just because he was curious?

No. There is a reason we have laws. The police are no exception.

Yes the officers ordered the students to clear the areas HOWEVER, citizens are ONLY obligated to follow LAWFUL orders from peace officers. This was an unlawful order, and therefore it does not need to be followed. If it doesn’t need to be followed, the police have no right to enforce it. Not only did the police enforce an unlawful order, they used excessive force in doing so.

The Nazis were just like that. And Im sure you don’t support them.

Actually you’re wrong. Refusing to follow an UNLAWFUL order is NOT illegal. These officers used batons. They sprayed pepperspray down someones throat, and he was coughing up blood 45 minutes.

If we followed every order given by police, we’d be living in a dictatorship.

Police officers are JUST as likely to assault a protestor as a protestor is to assault a police officer. Don’t defend this cowardly bully of an excuse.

Because even the Davis City PD said the campus police were WRONG.

It’s not being arrested that is the issue. It’s the use of excessive force.

It’s like if a teacher punches a student in the face for not doing is homework.

Would you really stand up for the teacher because the student should have done his homework? No. Why? Because it was excessive and unwarranted action.

Please learn the facts before you comment. This has NOTHING to do with OWS. This protest was against tuition hikes and a protest against the police brutality at UC Berkeley.

It’s people like you that are really dumbing our nation down. This cop probably knew as much about being a cop as you do about American rights and this protest.

Marc / Alan – If you like oppression and brutality so much, then the Third Reichw as definately your Utopia. Just say Sieg Heil and stop posting. We get your views.

Last time I checked, when our founding fathers warned us about what to do if this happened. They said

“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

PG – Last time I checked pepperspray was NEVER authorized to be used by spraying it down someones throat and are coughing up blood 45 minutes later. That is excessive force.

2). Unlawful orders do NOT have to be followed. The order to disperse was itself illegal, and therefore the police had no right to order it, let alone enforce it.

You think you know the laws and rules, but when the City of Davis Police Department tells the campus police “YOU WERE WRONG.”, it’s game over. You lost. Don’t try to defend bullies. Our country has enough of them.

One goes to college to further their education. I think this incident was a valuable teaching lesson for those young adults. Coming from a family that values education, chances were good that they grew up never having any dealings with law enforcement. I’m certain this interaction with the police was their first, and after being pepper sprayed, these students learned that the police aren’t always the “good guys” they were raised to believe. A very good lesson.

deckofficer – UC Davis is NOT a school for the privelleged my fellow American. Look at the statistics and you’ll see that this isn’t a private school for the rich and elite. UC Davis is a school where you get a 4.6 GPA just to have a hope of getting in. Not only that but you are the captain of your soccer team, student body president, or the leader of various clubs. Yes I know that you may think “Duh, thats the privelleged!” but most of these students are on TUITION ASSISTANCE programs. They are from middle-low income families (not all of them obviously, but a good majority), and this is their one shot.

Do you really think these kids who worked SO hard to get good grades and be the best of the best are really going to risk their education for something they don’t believe in? This whole protest was about tuition increase and police brutality (a simlilar incident happened at UC Berkeley on Nov 8). It wasn’t a protest for the right to protest. Although they certainly have that right.

Lastly, the main point is that this is excessive force regardless of whether they’re protesting civil rights, freedom of speech or a change in the lunch menu. The City of David Police Department has condemned their use of force, as has the President of the UC system, who is the head of every UC in California.

Obviously if these people are condemning the incident, they know they are wrong and are trying to soften the blow by admitting it.

Blake,

I sure didn’t mean to convey that the students came from any wealth, rather a home setting that values education. My nephew graduated form UCD, and worked very hard for his education.

Bob

Bob,

I’m sorry I must have misunderstood. You have to understand the basic outrage is over the question – “Did the police use EXCESSIVE force?”, clearly after watching the video – you can view it at change.org, the answer is yes.

In my opinion the fact that the City of Davis Police Department is saying that it was excessive force (it was the campus police that caused the incident) is enough evidence with the video to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this is police brutality.

Imagine if that was your kid. Standing up for something he believed in (no tuition increase and against UC berkeleys police brutality). You would be PROUD! That’s what AMERICANS do! look at the civil rights movement – people supported the police (at the time) and now we know it was wrong.

We teach our children civil disobedience in school, and as a 22 year old veteran with a 90% service-connected disability – I joined to defend these rights, and it pains me more than anyone to see them at risk.

“When men sacrafice Freedom for Safety, they will soon realize they have lost both.”

“When men sacrafice Freedom for Safety, they will soon realize they have lost both.” – Benjamin Franklin

We cannot give up any of the rights (no matter what the reason) that our founding fathers and Americans since then have fought so hard for. Have died for. Because if we lose them, we will not get them back.

The Right To Protest – ensures us protection from persecution if we peacefully and lawfully assemble, which the students did. The people who are getting injured in these incidents are NOT just students rebelling.

One professor injured at UC Berkeley was a Pullitzer prize winner.
Another woman and professor at UC Berekely was struck with a baton. Did I meantion she was a Poet Laurete of the United States?

These are people who define America and recognize that our risks are in danger. And it’s only right for them to peacefully protest for these rights.

Finally, all I can do is let you make up your own decision, but even if you still decide against the protestors, I can rest peacefully kowing that at least you were informed and know the full scope of the incident.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

-Blake

Blake,

We are on the same page. I think the spraying was a outrageous and cowardly act by that pudgy officer in charge. The lesson is that the police are not civil or any where near as smart as the students, and was a good lesson that the students learned that many police are just bullies. We are in agreement aren’t we? I support the students, not the overzealous, under-educated police.

Sory, I said they have the right to protest for the right to protest, what I meant is they have the right To protest which allows them to protest against tuition increase and against police brutaility. They weren’t protesting just to protest.

Eitherway, first UC Berekley, then UC Davis. Within a week?

Expect UC Berkeley students to be there right next to the UC Davis students at the next protest. Because they will.

No not for the right to mak a profit. How about the right for TAXPAYER funded universities to STOP trying to make more and more of a profit every year? They were also protesting a police brutality incident at UC Davis where faculty as well as students were struck with batons, had their hair pulled and etc.,?

Did I mention one of the protesters is a Pullitzer Prize winning author? That’s a big deal btw.
How about the fact one of them was a Poet Laurette of the United States?

These aren’t just rowdy students. It’s students AND faculty standing together AGAINST tuition increases and police brutality. And they were brutalized.

FACT.

I hope you all realize that all this incident did was cause a huge surge in support for protestors, and most likely all the citations and arrests will be dismissed immediately at arraignment.

UC Students 2 , POLICE – 0

view the video at http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/11/18/police-defend-use-of-force-on-occupy-uc-davis/?replytocom=106415

The kid curling in a ball isn’t resisting. He has pepperspray in his eyes from a direct blast in the face and he’s trying to rub it away.

Awwwww, how cute, we have a Kochsucker on the board

You completely misunderstood the reason for the outrage. IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT THEY WERE PROTESTING! Whether it’s civil rights, tuition increases or the freaking lunch menu! The fact is that the police assaulted these kids by using excessive force. Pepperspray was NOT necessary, and wasn’t even being CLOSE to necessary. It also makes it worse that police sprayed pepperspray down these student’s throats, and some of them were coughing up blood 45 minutes!

What did they do to deserve ALL this?

They sat down and wouldn’t move.

“All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.”

Sorry rock, I meant to sent that to the guy who had the nerve to support the police in a case of abuse.

Or they learned to obey police officers.

She should be FIRED….it is one thing to have police act like the badged thugs some of them are (not all). But, these students were sitting quietly…..congures up thoughts of the racist swine Bull O’connor in Alabama when he let dogs loose on children and non-violent marchers….The Chancellor should be FIRED as well. She sounds stupid..and the Chief another dumb broad needs to be FIRED…Not for how stupid they sound…but because of continually making excuses about their failure

Kacrzy the police did not have any say in the matter. The City of Davis PD did not do this. It was UC Davis CAMPUS POLICE. The wanna-be mall cops that think they have so much power and authority, when really they’re nothing more than a bully with a badge.

They weren’t children, they claim to be adults and their age backs it up. The campus police were just that, not thugs. When you protest and block the way for others to get where they need to go-you are breaking the law. The college is a school, a business, a place where people need and want to go. Take your protest out to a back lot where you won’t interfere with regular business. Quit whining, you were asked to step aside & you didn’t. The fees are necessary because out state is losing the ability to keep working. Take the problem to Sacramento as you won’t be in anyones way. They are in Hawaii. They are seldom doing there job or we woudln’t be in the mess we are in. GROW UP!

Sorry linda but you are not only dead wrong, you clearly show you do not understand the Constitution. The right to protest is clearly spelled out, but I am always amused by those who defend thugs.

Sorry, I agree with Linda. You only think you’re right! You can protests but not cause havoc. They have no rights hindering other people’s rights. Like the right to walk on a public path without thugs blocking it!!! You liberal people are always bleeding hearts and NOT about right and wrong!!!!

Will. Yes you can protest. No you can not cause havor. These kids were not causing havoc. They were sitting down with their arms linked. People could have walked around them and it would’ve taken an extra 3-5 seconds. They weren’t blocking the entire campus. Not only that BUT PEPPERSPRAY. I am a US Army veteran and I fought for these rights, and I was also trained with pepperspray, one thing about pepperspray is that you only use it for defence not to force compliance. Period.

Did you hear about that kid who had pepperspray sprayed down his THROAT? He was still coughing up blood 45 minutes later. That’s not even an authorized USE of pepperspray.

How can you defend them?

Yeah even though these very students paid to walk on that sidewalk they are not allowed to sit on it without being assaulted by a pepper spraying hooligan John Pike. The Chancellor never even gave an approval for this betrayal of human rights. So think about!!!

Will, I do defend your right to be as wrong as you want to be. The fact you think being bullies is a good thing is scary though.

I beg to differ. I’m sorry we see things differently. You think the cops were bullies, I don’t. Police doing their job is NOT bullying!!

Well said!!!! Believe me, WE are in the majority! They are the ones that are pathetic! They are the 1%

Will, I respect your personal beliefs and opinions, but can you tell me one thing – Do you think (after watching the video) that pepperspray was the best option in that situation? Or did the police maybe overreact? Maybe out of not bullying – but lack of training?

True! The police could of handled it differently. I appreciate your civility. We can all learn from this and move on for the better!

Apparently, neither Linda, nor Will, have read the 2005 ruling from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which specifically and explicitly forbids the use of pepper spray on non-violent protesters. The judge also ordered the defendants to pay plaintiffs legal fees because it “established important precedents and served the public interest.”

Lundberg v. Humbolt. Read it, and then decide if they were still doing their job by violating federal law. Qualified immunity was never intended to be a de facto Status of Forces agreement

[...] a report by the CBS Sacramento station Friday night, Spicuzza said the officers’ own safety was also a concern. “If you look at the [...]

[...] The police defend this needless attack, citing fear: [...]

Funny how now a 10 minute video has surfaced that shows the UCD students surrounding the officers and saying they would be released when arrested students would be released. Also shows the number of times students were warned. Yet I don’t see any mention of this on this news stations website, or any others. Typical liberal media showing us the 2 minutes of pepper spraying, thus costing the officers their jobs possibly, and even the Dean of the school turned on the officers. I hope the officers turn around and sue for wrongful termination. These officers deserve an apology.

You stupid idiot. Have you not seen the full 10 minute video where the students surrounded the police? What were they supposed to do, let themselves be held?

You are entitled to your own opinion Daniel, even when your opinion is dead wrong. There was no excuse for the pepper spaying, and no amount of diversionary comments will change that

Name calling is the sign of a weak mind Daniel, as is your excusing the behavior of the thug cops. You can desire to live in a police state if you wish to, I would rather not live that way

No need for diversion. The full video shows the behavior of the students and they got what they deserve. These students don’t even beleive what they were protesting. If they did, they wouldn’t have gone home to celebrate thanksgiving, they would have stayed in their tents. How many protest movements do you know of that people take time to go on vacation? Maybe you should quit with the sticking to the 2 minute video and give the full video a viewing and see if you think the police should have still gotten in trouble like they did? Your probably one of those little helpless kids that are out there and went home for the weekend. li

it still doesnt negate the controlling precedent set buy the 9th circuit court which makes it illegal to use pepper spray on protesters who dont pose a clear and present danger to officers or the public.

the video shows students surrounding the officers and saying they’ll be relaseased when the students were released, you say? then pepper spray the people blocking your exist. NOT the people who are sitting on the ground. if the threat is so clear and so present that pepper spray is justified, then why are they spraying people who arent posing the danger? from a tactical perspective, that makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever. from a legal perspective, they still have to prove that the people they sprayed were posing a threat. they werent. others may have been posing a threat, but hats not who they sprayed, and thats the issue.

So Adam you must have been there to know that there was no threat whatsoever posed to the officers. So your saying that the police have nothing to worry about when they are surrounded by students, because students would never do anything to hurt them? The fools got their 15 minutes of fame. More than anything, this has shown that the OWS movement is nothing but a bunch of privileged kids that are just looking for a reason to instigate officers, and when something is done to post about it. What ever happned to taking things out of context? Now that everyone will see what truly happened, those dumb people can hopefully be expelled.

Chimed in Mr. Chamberlan.

thats not at all what im saying. im saying if there is a threat, you deal with the person posing the threat. from the students sitting on the ground, there was no threat whatsoever. youre trying to use the threat of others as a pretext for spraying someone you dont happen to like.

on a personal aside, as a martial arts instructor who teaches batons, knives, and multiple opponents, this had nothing to do with threat reduction. a group that is surrounded and feels threatened assumes a tactical formation as it attempts to work its way out, making sure their backs are only to each other. here, you had officers with backs to their enemy, and there was no attempt – until after spraying – to retreat or get out

you could make the argument that the use of pepper spray on the protestors sitting is justifiable under the guise of psychological warfare. you could say, as anyone in a tactical field will say, “if you can break them psychologically, you dont have to break them physically.” but, this wasnt about psychological warfare, either. there wasnt a single officer there who expressed fear through his body language. there was no attempt at all to prepare for what might happen if it didnt work. the body language of officer pike, and the others, had nothing to do with legitimate tactics.

and, we still have the 9th circuit court ruling to deal with, which will very clearly say what happened here violated federal law. the issue is not whether or not there was a conceivable threat. the issue is whether or not the people who were sprayed posed a threat. i can see why someone would want to make the issue about a generalized threat that had to be snuffed out at all costs, regardless of who was actually causing the perceived threat. but, at the end of the day, proof remains that the people who were sprayed – the people whos actions must precipitate and justify the force used against them – were sitting quietly, and federal law states that misdemeanor trespass (as exhibited by the students who were actually sprayed, and not the others casing the threat) does not remove a protestors protections under the 4th amendment.

your argument of a generalized threat which could be handled through psychological warfare is also obliterated when one sees footage of one officer holding back the head of a non-resisting person while another officer sprays a substance proven to constrict breathing, cause sudden cardiac arrest, and chemical burns, directly down that persons throat, causing them to throw up blood for 45 minutes.

tell me. with all your experience in discerning subtle-but-distinctive threats, what was going on in that situation?

Thank you for the compliment, at least I am not a thug or thug excuser

Well I commend you for your prompt viewing of the full 10 minute video for you to be able to give such a tactical summation of what you see. Most of the people on here wouldn’t have bothered to go and view the entire video, they would stick with just what has been shown everywhere else, about 2 minutes worth of video. Thank you for taking the time to at least view the entire thing and give your opinion of the events. I’m not a martial arts instructor, or in law enforcement, but I was brought up to respect the law and when an officer gives orders, you listen or there will be consequences. Question for you, how would you have determined which of the people that was encircling you might be the dangerous one in a quick and efficient manner without possibly putting yourself at risk or your fellow officers? Also, you must know what police officers deal with daily, should officers blindly go into situations like this and not feel like they are in danger merely because they are surrounded by these “kids”?

5 million jews wouldn’t have viewed that as a compliment. I guess you agreed with Hitler then.

You would guess wrong, but being a thus excuser it seems you are used to being wrong. Don’t you have some puppies to go beat?

that depends on their training. there has, historically, been a big difference between the way an officer was trained to view the public, and how a soldier was taught to view the public. a soldier groups peopl into two categories. the enemy, and the non-enemy. they then kill the enemy and “try” not to kill to many non-enemies. soldiers are seen as an occupying force because thats exactly what they are. hostile, armed, and not particularly apt to treat anyone nicely.

which brings us to current law enforcement training, which has become very much the same as military training in terms of how they deal with the people around them and why citizens are now instinctively afraid of police officers and view them as, well, an occupying force. its not that people instinctively believe all cops are bad. its that they know if the cop is a bad apple, theres nothing they can do about it. theres no right to resist unlawful search and seizure, no right to resist unlawful arrest – nothing. and, should the cop go too far with his use of force, they also know that the police department will use attorneys who bill at an hour what the victim takes home in a week to defend the officer.

as for instantly figuring out who is who in a tactical situation. what people who dont work in a tactical field dont understand is that there is no surety. by the time you have surety, its too late. decisions are based on a series of indicators. who in the crowd has a facial expression indicative of someone predisposed to attack you? who in the crowd is always trying to find an opening to get closer? who is trying to incite others? none of these things lead to conclusive answers. theyre only indicators, and, as i said, in real-world tactical environments, by the time you have surety, its too late.

IF those indicators were present, the actions of the police would have been different. that they were calm, cool, and casual indicates those factors werent there. in the back of every officer is the knowledge that theyre outnumbered and that things COULD turn violent. but, they don they time to worry too much about it if there arent already signs that its going to go that way. go look at other videos where crowds turned violent against police. look for the changes in their tactics, their body language, and the way police come together in defensive postures. look for what hapens when police actually feel threatened. thats when the gloves come off and the stop “playing” authoritarian. thats when their responses become purely tactical and when they, well, seek to crush the threat.

none of those indicators were here in this video. in fact, the only time the cops assumed any sort of tactic that resembled them feeling threatened was AFTER they sprayed people sitting on the ground. they didnt spray the crowd itself in an attempt to mitigate risk. they didnt try to break their way out of a situation in which they were outnumbered. officer pike calmly drew and showed it too the crowd, nonchalantly sprayed down a row of students, raised his hand high, shook it up, and went in for another pass at the same students.

that is NOT what someone in a tactical field does when he feels threatened

That is a good point. Now what do you think we would have been watching plastered all over the evening news if they had tried to use force to break themselves out of the situation? By the way, I’m hispanic and none of the people I know are under the impression that police are bad. I’m not saying there aren’t bad cops out there. Basically the point I’m trying to get to is what would you guys have had the police do in this situation? And I mean now that you have seen the entire video and not just the 2 minute prime time version? I’d also like to know what you suggest the police do in future instances when they give out instructions and nobody is listening? What do they do? No one has answered that? If your wife was a police officer, and she was surrounded by that crowd what would you have expected of her to do?

Daniel, why do you continue to divert the conversation? Obviously the officers that were ‘surrounded’ as you claim managed to ‘escape’, the pepper spraying had nothing at all to do with that. I expect the police to do their job, and not be thugs.

RobK1967 your opinion is just that your opinion! And it’s WRONG! More people would agree with Daniel than you! Most people listen to the police. Don’t tell me that’s it was an unlawful order. You and they have NO right blocking anything that most likely you didn’t help pay for. So go somewhere else and sit! The sitters will all live BUT I hope they learned a listen! – MOVE when an officer tells you to!!!!

RobK1967, telling what you are is NOT name calling! Truth does hurt sometimes!

if the threat from the encirclement was as threatening as UCD PD claims, they would have taken a defensive posture. given the number of police, theydhave been in separate groups, each with their weapons out and ready for use. then, all the cameras would see was unruly people continually trying to encircle and close in on officers who had their weapons drawn, but who at that point showing restraint in using them. then, when it came time to actually break out, there wouldnt have been time to take your time. the spray would have been used the same way it was recently in seattle – and an indiscriminately dispersed chemical agent to drive large numbers of people backward. and as soon as the opening was created, the officers would have taken it and gotten out. then, if the people who were left decided to chase down the cops or continue to harass them, officers would likely up the ante when they rebuffed those who continued their assault.

what we would see in the media is not police brutality, but a mob mentality associated with OWS.

as for what to do when an order isnt followed, id suggest they do what the court said humboldt county should have done in 2005, which is to use other means. if those 10 people refused to comply with a lawful order (and theres an argument to make that it wasnt lawful, given that the quad is public property and that they were sitting in an area designed for sitting, during its expected hours of operation, and that it hadnt been closed. a permit to protest is only needed if it plans to disrupt pedestrian or motorized traffic. as long as there are easily accessible alternatives for those not part of a protest, a permit isnt needed – and its why those sorts of charges are always dropped), arrest them. thats why officers are trained how to not only arrest people safely, but to arrest, lift, and move people who have been injured in a fight with officers or others. refusal to obey a lawful order is not justification for a chemical agent that has been proven to cause those with asthma (and the officers dont know who has asthma and who doesnt) to suffocate. to say nothing of the chemical burns it can cause to the skin, and fact that its, in part, designed to burn the corneas (though, they do heal if not subjected to repeated exposure). its also worth noting that the 2005 ruling was on a case that started in 1997. the judge ordered the county to pay the plaintiffs legal fees because it “established an important precedent” and was “for the public good” that the sheriffs department be completely responsible for proving its actions legitimate so as to prevent the cost of litigation from keeping police departments in check.

an officer is not supposed to reach for his weapons the first chance he gets. whats the point in training them in submission tactics and joint manipulation if we’re just going to let them use their weapons in lieu of lesser methods of achieving the same result? do you remember when tasers were first introduced? they were couched as a non-lethal alternative when lethal force would have otherwise been justified. now officers are taught to use them to aid in an arrest, as well as a pain compliance tool – meaning there doesnt have to be a threat. just zap them. certain departments also teach to use pepper spray as a compliance tool on people who are neither actively, nor passively, resisting.

there are plenty of ways to unlink a human chain. and if it was my wife in that situation, id have her abide by the same rules i do, given my considerable abilities: dont kill if you can maim, dont maim if you can injure, dont injure if you can hurt, and dont hurt if you can walk away.

the officers were unable to walk away (due both to their job description and their situation), so instead of moving to something that only causes pain, they sent people to the hospital.

Thank you for uninformed opinion, I appreciate being insulted by your ilk. It is quite a badge of honor

Well you really didn’t answer my questions, mostly legal information. Its good to see people support law enforcement by saying stuff like you have and quoting precedents, then when opportunity presents itself turning around and sueing law enforcement for not doing enough. This is what is causing the decline in America. No common sense.

More diversion and deflection Daniel?? Why can’t you just address that the ‘cops’ that pepper spayed unarmed protestors are thugs and should be charged for the crimes they committed?? None of your red herrings have anything to do with reality. Why do you want to live under fascism? If you hate what the US stands for so much why not move to a police state?

I don’t hate what the US stands for. I hate what these OWS people think they stand for. They do not stand for the 99% like they think they do. Most have parents that are part of the 1%. And when offered a job working at Wall St. one of the OWS people quit OWS and went to work for a brokerage. Doesn’t get any more fake than that. If OWS did stand for what the majority of Americans feel don’t you think that these demonstrations would be continuing on a massive scale? These are just a bunch of worthless entitled children who want everything given to them.

Even more diversion and deflection Daniel? I guess there are some things you can count on. Why you want to defend the 1% who have gotten the US in trouble is quite revealing. And your many incoorect or outright misleading comments are amusing in their lunacy. Are you truly that delusion to think most of the students parents are members of the 1%? What color is the sky on your world because you obviously are not residing on planet Earth

Maybe you need to read this Daniel,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/31/income-inequality-poll_n_1067605.html

Rob when you can send me a link with the parameters of the poll I’ll give it a read. You can achieve whatever outcome you want if you phrase the questions right.

oh, i answered your questions, daniel. i just didnt realize they were rhetorical and you didnt really expect an answer. you asked what would have happened if they actually did try to break out of the circle instead of jdoing what they did.

i told you.

you asked what they should do when orders arent followed

i told you. you dont appear to like all the legal background, because it doesnt support your theory that anything an officers right of discretion extends to blatant violation of federal law, but, nevertheless, i did, in fact answer your question

you asked what i would want my wife to do in that situation.

i told you

i answered all of your questions and i gave you the relevant tactical and legal background to support my answers. dont sit there and say i didnt answer your questions just because you dont like them and/or dont know how to rebut them.

youre of the opinion that an officers qualified immunity extends so far as to be tantamount to a Status of Forces agreement, in which they have complete immunity from all local and federal laws and arent subject to judicial review or sanction. thats fine. just own up to it and stop questioning the people taking exeption to the activities of those you think should go withou scrutiny. you have offered NO evidence whatsoever to support your claim that there was a threat proportional to the response. you have had no training. you have read no books on threat analysis or combat stress. you have done NOTHING but espouse, over and over again, some variation of “what they did fine,” based solely on your untutored analysis of a video you dont understand, and the ridiculous notion that “when an officer tells you to do something, you do it” even if that order isnt a legal one or he is in some other way stepping outside his scope as an officer.

oh, and by the way, if anyone doesnt answer questions, its you. i asked you what was going on when one officer held back someones head while another sprayed a chemical agent known to cause people to suffocate, cause sudden cardiac arrest, and burn the skin, directly down a non-resisting protesters throat, causing him to throw up blood for 45 minutes

you never even attempted to answer that question. id like one in your next response.

Truth is I hope they would die. I guess your right, in my opinion if your instructed to do something by an officer you should do it unless your life is endangered. These same idiots are the same idiots taht would be crying and trying to sue the police for not doing anything if they had not done anything and someone had gotten hurt. It sounds like this is your kind of thing, too bad the rest of the jokers aren’t as dedicated as you, maybe they would be taken seriously by everyone.